*yawn*

It's like people aren't even trying to be creative anymore. Honestly, if you posted this list without specifying what game it came from I would have guessed AC2, because it's almost exactly like quests from there with just name changes.

Well you're always going to have some kill whatever quests... it is a game where you kill stuff. That's like getting mad that Gran Turismo only offers race tracks.

The thing is, there are a lot of kill whatever quests that have context to them, a backstory, or an entire dungeon you have to go through to get to them.

I mean, I could go through any Final Fantasy and say the game boils down to killing the following bosses but that isn't what the game is about.

Mad? MAD? I'll show you who's mad! I'll destroy you all... ALL! Bwaahahahahaaha!

That aside, it's not like getting mad that Gran Turismo only offers race tracks. It's like getting mad that Gran Turismo only offers race tracks that are:

a) oval
b) already in other games

You're dodging though... when do I get the “better quests”?

Well some of those might be better quests.. I don't know anything about those ones. But I think it is cool just reading the quest description even or following along a series of quests that develops into Kill Some Big Boss. I dunno.

Those look like horde quests... I read somewhere that Alliance quests are better. I don't know if that is true. I've never played Horde.

Anyway, Wow has 0 quests that are taken from other games. They might have some oval quests but why reinvent the wheel? A lot of stories have the same basic plot (good guy is challenged by bad guy but wins in the end) but that doesn't make them all the same.

If you're looking quests PURELY from a something to keep me occupied so I can get XP kind of view.. well I'm not really sure what anybody can offer, short of a major change, like going from 2d games to 3d games.

*Anyway, Wow has 0 quests that are taken from other games.*

I recall both AC2 and DAoC having quests to kill 10 things or get 10 wossits from the corpses of otherthings. There's “FedEx” quests in WoW too.

*why reinvent the wheel?*

I'm not asking for re-invention, just progress.

*I'm not really sure what anybody can offer*

I threw out some ideas at http://auzsoft.totalbiscuit...

What I meant was 0 quests that are taken exactly from other games. As I said, if you break it down to exactly what you are doing in the quest, then all games are the same.

Well Battlegrounds will bring these sorts of quests. Collecting resources from the mines will make your side more powerful in the Battlefield. Taking over an enemy tower will fill the tower with Alliance troops.

It is impossible to make all quests affect change in a world that must accomodate thousands of other players.

Another thing that maybe comes close to what you want is an instance dungeon. I'm sure you know what they are from AC2 or whatever, but you do feel like you're making a difference as you go through, despite being able to go through again if you want. But if you couldn't go through again, they'd be wasting perfectly good content. Since there's no reason why the enemies should come back, there's no point in trying.

For example, on the Van Cleef quest is the result of a series of quests that lead up to having to go hunt him down and kill him. You wipe out a dungeon full of his henchmen and eventually get up to him. You take him down, pick up his head, and go get the bounty. It feels pretty awesome, even if you realize that you can run through the dungeon again.

I would like to see more of an ability to affect change but I still think you need a solid base of static content if you want to guarantee that there is always something to do.

Actually, AC2 has no instancing. City of Heroes has a lot of it though and it doesn't do anything for immersion at all - all it does is prevent people breaking into your mission (bugs aside). The Super-Villains you defeat are “back on the streets” in no time at all - although CoH arguably has precedent for it since no decent villain in comics ever stays locked up for long. Nevertheless, it still feels very funfair-ride.

As for the Battlegrounds, they appear equally as ephemeral. From the preview, if one side does manage the difficult task of destroying their opponent's base, said base will eventually rebuild itself. Like DAoC RvR, it's meant to never be won. Besides, it's designed for high levels and PKs - the former I have as yet failed to join, the latter I can't seem to find the enthusiam for.

But if one side ever one, preventing the other side from rebuilding, the game would be over...

They're making battlefields for lower level players but even on the high level one they will release first, they will allow for lowerish (dunno how low), to support the higher levels, by doing quests.

The game wouldn't be over if winning was part of the plan would it?

But if one side wins... there would be no more conflict in the game.

It especially wouldn't work for WoW because Warcraft is about Orcs vs Humans.

*roll eyes*

The battlegrounds comprise the entire world of warcraft do they?

I think I thought you were talking about the whole game for some reason.

But specifically about battlefields, if one side won forever, Blizzard would have to create another battlefield somewhere. Eventually, they'd run out of places. On some servers, one side would do particularly well, which would cause it to make no sense to build battlefields over places where battles had previously been won.

I think they offer a good compromise in WoW. The battlefield doesn't reset entirely. Rather, the last side that won will gain an advantage for the next battle. This at least will provide some sort of sense of accomplishment, I think.

I wouldn't mind seeing a series of battlefields that could be won or lost without reseting but they'd eventually have to have the possibility to be retaken. Otherwise, there'd be no more battlefields.

“Eventually, they'd run out of places.”

In a virtual world? Seems unlikely. But you're probably right, endlessly creating new arenas for eternal PvP spats doesn't seem the way to go. I'd much prefer them to work on getting the PvE elements more compelling, such as not having quests where I have to kill 26 fucking Dreadmaw Crocilisks just to find one pendant. I was weeping more than the grieving mother at that point.

I think it is about your mindset. I grab a bunch of quests and then go out and have fun killing things. After a while, I notice that I just completed my quest.

Many people go out specifically to find that one pendant and only that one pendant. IMO, that takes away from the fun. Grouping helps a lot.

But even in singleplayer RPGs, quests really just involve going from town A to town B to dungeon 1 to town A to dungeon 2 to town C, etc.

Something more complicated might be cool. I guess I just can't think of anything more complicated that doesn't boil down to the same thing in the end.

Perhaps it's your mindset: maybe you'd rather not face the fact you're paying money for something you aren't enjoying, so you sit there with a rictus grin on your face, pretending you're enjoying what is in many ways a highly repetitive task. To prevent the idea that a game can have bad points as well as good entering your mind, you'll defend it absolutely in discussion forums, offloading the flaws into generic flaws inherent in all systems or placing the blame on the people who mention them. Ultimately though, the pressure will build until you suddenly flip to the “Dark Side” and start to tear the game down.

Or am I assuming rather too much about how you're thinking?

On the pendant front meanwhile, the Dreadmaws only spawn in the river and only they spawn in the river - and, I think only a certain area spawns those with the pendant on them. So unless you're going to stay there, you're not going to accidently run across the pendant on one of them whilst enjoying yourself on the wide range of creatures that inhabits the wide open spaces of the rest of the Barrens/Durotar. Assuming you'd accidently ran across the quest starter before hand too obviously.

Yep because I love WoW to no end. I've been playing Warcraft since Warcraft 1, so WoW is basically a dream come true.

I'm not talking about wandering aimlessly. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe I just enjoy this style of gameplay, while you don't.

I still don't think it is any more repetitive than any other game that offers different types of the exact same thing. Every level of Mario 1 is the same - run to the end, avoid things. But I could see how someone would say Mario 1 is repetitive if they didn't enjoy that type of game.

That yep was in regards to you assuming too much. hehe.

“That yep was in regards to you assuming too much.”

Of course I was... as were you. Please stop telling me what I think.

“I still don't think it is any more repetitive than any other game that offers different types of the exact same thing.”

That's my point: WoW has added almost nothing to the MMOG genre. I had hoped for more, but there isn't. So I said I was disappointed. How is this wrong?

I think that is ultimately the problem, for WoW and because of its success, the MMORPG genre. There's zero innovation at all. Every single aspect of it is taken from other games. Even the UI mods were done 5 years ago in Asheron's Call.

Any company looking at making a new MMOG is going to look at WoW and say, scrap the innovations and just do what everyone else is doing because that's what people want. Well, that's fine until people finally wake up and realize they are no longer having fun and want something new, but lo and behold there is nothing new anymore and the whole thing crashes down. Why take a risk on trying something new, afterall?

I disagree with your Mario analogy, as well. Most of those games start you out with certain skills and as you play you start learning new ways to play, and totally new aspects of gaming come at you by the end. The game you start with is not the same as the one you finish, although sure there are some aspects that carry throughout. Not only that, but each new one didn't just copy the last but tried to add new things and new ways of playing. Sure, its essentially running and jumping and collecting things, at heart, but there's still innovating going on. (Mario Sunshine is far different than Mario 64, even though essentially you are doing similar things)

And when there wasn't a lot of innovating going on anymore, the games (platformers) pretty much stopped selling well. Until something like Ratchet and Clank came along to totally innovate the genre again.

WoW is just the opposite.

Sorry if it sounded like I was telling you what you were thinking. I was just trying to suggest maybe what the problem might be.

Regarding WoW not being any different, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've played a ton of MMOs but have never played one quite like WoW before. I'll just happily enjoy it.

“I was just trying to suggest maybe what the problem might be.”

It's not like I'm the only one with reservations you know...

“[W]hile World of Warcraft is certainly a great computer game (the graphics are fantastic, the grind is so slight it's negligible, the creativity is amazing), City of Heroes is the better MMORPG.”

http://terranova.blogs.com/...

“Blizzard Invents “Sliced Bread”, Players Think it’s Nifty”

http://feetofclay.us/?p=10

“The general consensus amongst most observers is that, well, there just isn’t a lot new there. And so, unsatisfied with the response that people came because the game was simpler and dumbed down from standard RPG fare, people have been asking what is it about WoW that the hardcore gamers have decided is better?”

http://booboo.phpwebhosting...

“This is a game for both believers and MMO atheists. It’s nothing new, but it’s the first MMORPG that equals the sum of its parts.”

http://www.deadalfs.co.uk/r...

“World of Warcraft (WoW) isn’t anything revolutionary. In fact, you could just say that it’s another MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game), but in fact it’s a very well tuned experience.”

http://toadstool.se/journal...